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Experimental Pilots need category and Class ratings |
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Chuck Truthan - May 18,2005
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This just out on AOPA: When the FAA issued its final Sport Pilot rule, it quietly removed a privilege that has existed for years. In the past, pilots could carry passengers in certain experimental aircraft regardless of whether they held the appropriate category and class ratings. For example, you could hold a private pilot certificate with an airplane single-engine land category and class rating and go out and fly a passenger in an experimental helicopter with no training required. The FAA cited an increased number of accidents attributed to a lack of category and class ratings as the reason for the change.The rule, which took effect on September 1, 2004, now requires any pilot who holds a recreational or higher level pilot certificate to also hold the appropriate aircraft category and class rating for any experiment aircraft in which they want to carry passengers.However, the FAA is giving experienced pilots who have logged time in experimental aircraft for which they do not hold the appropriate category and class ratings until the end of this summer to apply to the FAA for a new experimental aircraft rating.See the FAA's site for full details, but basicly we all now need SES endorsements to fly the SeaRey!http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/notices/8700/n8700-42.doc<!-- >'"><br><font color=red size=6>' or > missing in user HTML. Please fix the HTML.</font> -->
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Don Maxwell - May 18,2005
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That's right, Chuck. It looks like the FAA is allowing experienced pilots to get the rating without having to first pay for training.
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Kenneth Leonard - May 18,2005
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While I agree with Frank, my gripe is that we all know that an SES has little meaning for the Searey. I don't want to see it happen, but I could imagine an SESF and SESH (float & hull).
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Tom Lansing - May 18,2005
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The SES is only needed TO CARRY PASSENGERS as I understand it. The FAA experience exception provides, in effect a single N number SES with 4 hours I think & a CFI signoff.
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Russ Garner - May 18,2005
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You can get a SES rating in the Searey. I got my SES in 1997 in the factory Searey with Richard Johnson at Winter Haven Airport.
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Bård Sørbye - May 19,2005
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In Norway, the appropriate ratings are and have always been a requirement, with or without passengers. In order to fly the SeaRey, I need the Single Engine Sea rating, plus Tail Wheel and Retractable Gear endorsements. The SES training has made sense to me!
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Chuck Truthan - May 19,2005
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Gentlemen and Ladies,<br /><br />As usual with the government, there is confusion in their language. One section makes it clear that the PIC of an experimental aircraft MUST hold category and class ratings, and another section says in order to carry a passenger(s). <br /><br />Please refer to the URL I posted in the original message.<br /><br />They also spell out that you can get, with 5 hrs PIC and some paperwork, an endorsement specific to a given experimental aircraft - such as a SeaRey, or Liza Air Cam.<br /><br />Here is some of the sections from the URL:<br /><br />c. This notice applies to the operation of aircraft certificated in the experimental category, regardless of the purpose for which the aircraft was certificated.<br />(1) In general, aircraft that have been issued an experimental airworthiness certificate for any purpose (see section 21.191) are issued operating limitations that are a part of the aircraft’s airworthiness certificate. As a result of this notice and the new section 61.31(k)(2)(iii)(B), the FAA will make the necessary changes to the aircraft’s operating limitations, if appropriate, by specifying that the pilot must hold the appropriate category and class rating or the appropriate category and class privilege and appropriate endorsement(s) that is required for the pilot in command (PIC) to pilot a specific experimental aircraft. <br />(3) Additionally, this notice clarifies that the statement “pilots must hold an appropriate category and class rating, or category and class privilege” in an aircraft’s operating limitations means that the PIC of the experimental aircraft must hold the aircraft category and class rating or privilege that applies to that category and class of experimental aircraft being operated by the pilot. For example, the FAA has determined that an experimental aircraft known as the Leza Air Cam has flight characteristics, capabilities, and appearances similar to a multiengine land airplane. Thus, the PIC must hold an airplane multiengine land rating on his or her pilot certificate to act as the PIC of that experimental aircraft.<br /><br />d. In accordance with section 61.63(k) or section 61.165(f), the FAA may need to issue aircraft ratings on pilot certificates for operating certain experimental aircraft on a “case by case” basis that applies to a specific experimental aircraft. Therefore, the FAA may need to revise the operating limitations that are attached to an experimental aircraft’s airworthiness certificate to further clarify the category and class rating requirements for a PIC when carrying passengers in an experimental aircraft.<br />5. GUIDANCE. Section 61.31(k)(2)(iii)(B) requires that the PIC have an appropriate category and class rating when operating an experimental aircraft while carrying a passenger.<br />a. The new rule provides a method for giving credit for previous flight experience gained in an experimental aircraft. Section 61.63(k) addresses pilots who hold a recreational pilot certification level or higher, and section 61.165(f) addresses pilots holding an airline transport certificate. These pilots may apply for a category and class rating limited to a specific make and model of experimental aircraft. The pilot certificate will be issued with the limitation “Authorized Experimental Aircraft: [Category] and [Class] rating [Make] and [Model]” for the aircraft authorized to be operated. (See sample certificates in Appendix 1, Figures 5?9.) Pilots seeking this experimental aircraft rating must have logged at least 5 hours of PIC flight time in the same category, class, make, and model of experimental aircraft. The applicant is required to receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized flight instructor who has determined that the applicant is proficient to act as PIC of the same category, class, make, and model of experimental aircraft for which the application was made. The 5 hours of flight experience must be logged between September 1, 2004, and August 31, 2005. Once the pilot complies with the provisions of sections 61.63(k) or 61.165(f), as appropriate, that pilot may be issued the appropriate category and class rating that will be limited to a specific make and model of experimental aircraft. <br />b. In accordance with sections 61.63(k) and 61.165(f), this additional aircraft rating will be issued without the need for the pilot to submit to a practical test. The FAA believes the 5 hours of PIC flight time performed within the 12 month window combined with an endorsement from an authorized flight instructor should provide those pilots who have been operating without the appropriate category and class rating under the old rule with the appropriate skills and qualifications to operate the specific make and model of experimental aircraft safely. <br />
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James Michael Timoney - May 19,2005
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It figures. I have six hours with Kerry on Aug 28,29, just before the inclusion time. Oh well, that really was just intended to make sure the fun was worth the building. It will be! I planned to go back before the First Flight anyway. ( I also started float training, but was waiting for my plane to finish)
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