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Night Alighting in a Searey |
|  Next Item - Attention all Central Florida Seareyers
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Jack Peters - Oct 06,2010
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1;Correct QNH, know your hight above the water.<br />2;Plan to land toward a shore line with plenty of lights.<br />3;Give yourself plenty of room & fly toward the brightest lights at about 50ft into the wind, you will see the sea state, any boats, poles on your alighting path very clearly.(have a look across a river)<br />3;Hold the light in the centre of the windcreen, during your run observe, does your heading increase (wind from the right) or decrease(wind from the left)<br />4;When you have the correct heading, into wind for your landing approach, note your heading.<br />4;Use glassy water approach.<br />It does take a good scan rate, and good attitude control, so practice in daylight first.<br />We have done a few in OZ, no problems at this stage.<br />Jack <br />
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John Robert Dunlop - Oct 07,2010
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Did you change your skivies Jack?
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Jack Peters - Oct 11,2010
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No mate, I only had em on for a week.
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Don Maxwell - Oct 07,2010
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Jack! Aw, jeez.
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Kenneth Leonard - Oct 09,2010
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Personally, my pitot system/altimeter has way too much variation in it to trust my altimeter below 100'.<br />Many is the time I've set my altimeter to 40' at my lake, flown 10 miles to the shore, dropped down to about 50' and the altimeter shows well over 100'. I can't imagine doing this in less than an emergency.
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Dennis Scearce - Oct 10,2010
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Or, land at the nearest airport with lights and offer your friend free beer to come after you.
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Dan Nickens - Oct 10,2010
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According to the FAA's SEAPLANE, SKIPLANE, and FLOAT/SKI EQUIPPED HELICOPTER OPERATIONS HANDBOOK (FAA H 8083-23) night landings on open water in a seaplane are 'extremely hazardous' with 'a high possibility of damage or loss of the seaplane.' That's likely enough for any FAA guy to issue a citation for 'careless and reckless' operation even if you don't get wet.
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FAA Handbook Link
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Don Maxwell - Oct 10,2010
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To read the whole thing, also download parts 2, 3, and 4. (Just change the '1' before '.pdf' in Dan's link.)
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Jack Peters - Oct 11,2010
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There are many things we do Dan that perhaps we should think about, like landing with less than 30'(min) of fuel in the tank.<br />A night landing on water is not compulsery, but its nice to be able to talk about the correct way to do it.<br />One definate NO NO is landing on open water at night, even in daylight its dicey.<br />The lady of the lake waits for all of us.
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Don Maxwell - Oct 11,2010
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Jack, I certainly agree about '...talk about the correct way,' and your <br />suggestions seem right on the mark. It's the 'do it' part that gives me <br />the heebie-jeebies. I confess to a few low-light water landings, but <br />haven't tried it in total darkness. (Bright full moonlight would be <br />encouraging.) <br /><br />What are your thoughts about landing lights on the airplane? Would <br />superbright ones be helpful at all? (Maybe if there are riffles, but <br />maybe not if there's no breeze.)
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Jack Peters - Oct 11,2010
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Don I would not use lights, they could offer a distraction, if you have spent 40years of your life doing night landings that would be an advantage too, its like so many aspects of flying, you use your common sence, you are right on the ball about when & where you would do a night landing.<br />And another thing, regulations are for the guidence of wise men & the blind obdedience of 'the not so wise'.<br />Think of all the regulations some of us break every time we come below 500ft and don't land, fly formation without an endorsement & on it goes.<br />I like this, a free exchange of views & good info from thinking pilots.
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Don Maxwell - Oct 12,2010
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Aw, crap, Jack, you've got my interest with that part about blind obedience. Now that we're living on water, I might as well go out in a canoe at night to where I usually land and try to see how scary it would look at 65 mph. That's if I can come up with lights for the canoe. (Regulations grrr.)
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Jack Peters - Oct 13,2010
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Don think I'd rather be in a canoe at night too, than a Searey at 65mph.
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Don Maxwell - Oct 13,2010
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I went out in the canoe last night, Jack, about two hours after 'night' began. It was dark--no moon--but after about 20 minutes I could see just barely well enough not to need a flashlight. (No lights on the canoe.) <br /><br />The sky was mostly clear, but there's always some light pollution here from three cities within 30 miles, as well as house lights and the drawbridge lights. I couldn't see much, though, and would have been mighty uncomfortable if trying to alight there.<br /><br />Here's what I could see from about 1,500 feet from shore, in the area where I like to land in daylight. Except for the last shot, the camera was a Canon SX20-IS shooting at f2.8 and ISO 3200. The last was an iPhone 3GS--just for the colors. I couldn't see much better than the camera could.<br /><br />Wind might have been 1 knot.<br /><br />In 'AwayFromLights', the lights are about 2 nm away. What you CAN'T see is that the right one-third of the shot is a point of land with 100 foot trees. Yikes!<br /><br />Google Earth will show you an aerial view. The canoe was at approximately 37.307000 and -77.210000.<br /><br />
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IMG 5016 House Night Canon
IMG 5025 Bridge Night Canon
IMG 5049 RiverNight AwayFromLights
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IMG 1553 Bridge
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Jack Peters - Oct 14,2010
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Unless you can put a well lit town on the edge Don, I'm with you in the canoe.
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Kenneth Leonard - Oct 13,2010
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Don - you paddle pretty damn fast! I can't get the canoe above about 5 knots.
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Don Maxwell - Oct 13,2010
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Well, see, Ken, up here at 37 north our rotational velocity is more than 900 mph, so all I had to do was drag the paddle just enough to slow down by 65 mph and let the air and water go past.
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Eric Batterman - Oct 11,2010
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From the SPA:<br /><br />'Q: Is it legal to land at night?<br /><br />A: While many Part 135 operators are specifically prohibited from landing a seaplane at night on a water body not lit specifically for that purpose, Part 91 operators are not specifically prohibited from landing at night on an unlit body of water. However, FAR 91.13, prohibiting careless or reckless operations, could potentially be interpreted as prohibiting night landings on unlit water bodies. Case law includes one example in which a pilot was charged with violating 91.13 for landing at night on an unlit airfield.<br /><br />Of course, there are some bodies of water, such as the landing lane between Lakes Spenard and Hood in Anchorage, Alaska, that are lit specifically to facilitate night landings.<br /><br />For the record, SPA does not advocate landing at night without the benefit of lighting specifically designed to facilitate the landing of aircraft. '
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Tom Binsfeld - Oct 11,2010
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Ask John Spratt about his HID lights. They are amazing!
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Don Maxwell - Oct 12,2010
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Eric Batterman has them, too, Tom. They sure are bright! But I wonder about their effect on water at night. For example, bright car headlights essentially disappear when the road ahead is wet blacktop. Even new concrete doesn't show up very well when it's wet. So I imagine that on glassy water, even HID landing lights might not show you where the surface is. They'd probably help you see masts and hulls, though.
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Eric Batterman - Oct 12,2010
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The HID lights really bring the fish up to the surface. Just land a few inches higher than the fish. Don is correct about not illuminating the waters surface (esp when glassy). Stand on your dock at night with a very bright flashlight aimed like your landing lights on approach. Won't give you a warm fuzzy.
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Frank A. Carr - Oct 12,2010
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Haven't done your test Eric, but some years back I aways used 100,000 Candle Power light on my boat to get the warm fuzzy. Now I don't boat at night let alone try alighting the SeaRey in the dark.<!-- >'"><br><font color=red size=6>' or > missing in user HTML. Please fix the HTML.</font> -->
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Don Maxwell - Oct 12,2010
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Eric, have you found any guidance from the SPA (or from the oh-so-wise FAA) about what constitutes 'lighting specifically designed to facilitate the landing of aircraft' on water?
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Tom Binsfeld - Oct 12,2010
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I'll let John comment on how well they work if you were to theoretically use them on a moonless night on a dry lake bed out in the middle of nowhere which I wouldn't have witnessed, because it's all theoretical
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Eric Batterman - Oct 12,2010
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Lake Hood, AK seaplane base has runway edge lights. They are visible (sort of) in this video:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aQafbeZik">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aQafbeZik</a><br /><br />
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