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Sailplane threatens SC nuclear plant |
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - Jan 13,2013
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Just one more thing we must thank Bin Laden for. I just read this in a recent AOPA newsletter. One of the many hazards <br />we, SeaRey explorers, must deal with, post 9/11 is local law enforcement. Besides having to stay within the FAA <br />regulations, one must find out about and stay within all the other Federal, State, and local regulations. <br />
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AOPA - Secret 'No-Fly Zone'
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Don Maxwell - Jan 13,2013
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The part I like best in this lovely story of overzealous cops is, '...his attorney ... said the case would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against Darlington County law enforcement....' (Too bad he didn't sue, though.)
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Kenneth Leonard - Jan 18,2013
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Recall my experience with South Carolina cops last year. You are guilty first...then they are in defensive <br />mode because they screwed up so have to find something to charge you with to scare you out of the <br />lawsuit. This police departments Facebook page was taken down because of the many negative <br />comments.
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Dennis Scearce - Jan 18,2013
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I work at McGuire Nuclear Station at the south end of Lake Norman. The place is crawling with highly trained guards, all carrying Glocks and many with assault rifles. They all have to qualify at least once a month on both, plus shot gun, plus night shooting. They take any possible intruder very seriously and are very good shots. I don't 'loiter' when I fly near there.
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Dan Nickens - Jan 18,2013
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Dennis Scearce - Jan 19,2013
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All true, Dan. But our security force is not into analysis like we are. If you are in their space, you are the bad guy. It didn't used to b e that way pre 9/11. Now everything in our pockets and hands and on our feet gets xray'd and we go through an explosive detector & metal detector then get our palms scanned just to get to work. It's a big sky. Why not fly somewhere else and save yourself some grief. I fly within 1/2 mile of the plant routinely with no problems. I would never fly over it at a low altitude.
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Frank A. Carr - Jan 19,2013
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Two questions Dan:<br />1. Is it too much to expect that those we pay to protect us and things should be informed <br />(as per the two attachments you include)?<br />2. Where is it written that local law enforcement is exempt from laws against extortion? <br />(Clearly the offer to drop a irrelevant change in order to secure from the pilot his agreement <br />to avoid legal action is, to this non-lawyer, tantamount to extortion).
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Steve Kessinger - Jan 19,2013
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I'm not worried about the highly trained professional security guards. I am worried about the wannabe hero who thinks a badge makes them God. <br /><br />'one officer talked about commandeering the airport. “He was running around, the one guy that was commandeering everything, saying, ‘We were going to shoot him down,’” '
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Kenneth Leonard - Jan 22,2013
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Steve - exactly. As with my experience, 9 of the 10 were totally friendly and professional. It only takes 1 idiot but that's human nature and Dennis is correct that it's better to avoid the conflict in the first place.
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - May 24,2013
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From this week's APOA news feed, another set of stories of overzealous law enforcement agents (DEA & HLS) giong after General Aviation aircraft flying VFR flight profiles profiles. <br />See the article 'Pilot is detained for 'doing absolutely nothing illegal'<br /><br />SUMMARY - Columnist James Fallows examines the ordeal of private pilot Gabriel Silverstein, who was detained for two hours when he forgot his eyeglass case at an airport in Oklahoma. 'Again to put this in perspective for people outside the airplane world, a person who was doing absolutely nothing illegal and was embarked on a perfectly normal trip from place to place, became the object of an extensive and costly manhunt -- on grounds of general 'suspicion,' ' he writes.<br />
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Pilot is detained for 'doing absolutely nothing illegal'
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Dan Nickens - May 25,2013
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So, you might think this is just an isolated incident. It’s not. I can give you two examples that show it is not so rare.<br /><br />The first occurred with Richard Bach last year. We were flying around the San Juan Islands enjoying a nice summer day when we spotted a beach. Richard, being familiar with the area, noted it was open for SeaReys.<br /><br />We splashed down and taxied up on the beach. A sailboat guy anchored offshore soon joined us to talk about water stuff.<br /><br />A big black boat bristling with antennas and flashing blue lights came rushing into view. It made straight for our peaceful beach. Instead of coming immediately to shore, though, it hung ominously just off the beach, watching us.<br /><br />After a few minutes the boat nosed into the sand just down the beach. Two armed men with body armor clamored off. One remained on deck to provide cover.<br /><br />The agents approached the three of us cautiously. From some distance one demanded an answer: “Are these your airplanes?”<br /><br />Richard and I confessed. “Yes.”<br /><br />The agents approached closer and challenged the boat owner. “Who are you?”<br /><br />After he told them he was with the boat, one of the agents ordered him to “move away.” He did so quite promptly.<br /><br />As one agent hung back, the other approached Richard and me asking to see our aircraft documentation. When politely asked for an explanation of his request, he told us it was just a “routine” check.<br /><br />Yeah, right.<br /><br />After collecting the documents, the agent gave them to his partner. We were told he was taking them back to the assault vessel for verification. I suppressed my objections because, despite his intimidating approach, the agent could not have been more polite.<br /><br />And more polite but pointed questions ensued. Questions about the airplanes and their capabilities. The questions expertly lead to having us reveal the interior of the airplanes without the necessity of obtaining search warrants without probable cause.<br /><br />And then there were questions about the pilots and what we were doing flitting around the far corners of the country. All were delivered with disarming politeness while our airworthiness certificates were held hostage on the black boat.<br /><br />Then it was over. The black boat left, leaving only a lingering uneasiness over the show of brute force for no good cause.<br /><br />Richard later wrote an e-mail to the lead agent. It was a polite note thanking him for his diplomacy but questioning the underlying motives. An equally polite response was received citing the need for the Border Protection police to be vigilant in protecting us against unknown threats.<br /><br />On the way back from Seattle last year I flew along the Apalachicola Gulf coast and barrier islands, skirting the Air Defense Identification Zone. The water and air were smooth, and it was absolutely delightful. Abandoning the near shore, I took a shortcut low across Apalachicola Bay. Reaching shore I went straight over to Perry for fuel.<br /><br />The friendly fueler heard my story and shook his head. “Did ya file a flight plan?”<br /><br />“No.”<br /><br /> “Did ya have flight following?” <br /> <br />“No.” Now I was expecting the standard lecture to follow about flight monitoring safety. I was prepared to tell the old codger about the new fangled satellite tracking system I have onboard. Instead I got a cautionary tale.<br /><br />The fueler told a story of a RV driver flying cross country that stopped for fuel a while back. As the pilot was inside making a position report and getting a soda from the vending machine, a Blackhawk helicopter landed. Armed men in military style jump suits entered the building and “suggested” he step outside. He did.<br /><br />The pilot was interrogated about his airplane and his trip while surrounded by five agents. The agents “asked” if they could look in his airplane. The pilot wanted to know if he could refuse. He was told he could, but he would be detained and a warrant would be obtained for the search. He decided to let them go ahead. The airplane was strip searched and luggage and pieces strewn across the hot pavement. <br /><br />Meanwhile a federal King Air and Citation arrived with more agents. Eventually the ramp was full of agents surrounding the one pilot. During the process the local sheriff deputy arrived. <br /><br />Nothing was found of interest. The agents in their helicopter, turboprop and jet just left. The pilot got no explanation. It took him quite some time to restore his airplane. By that time it was too late to continue his flight.<br /><br />The local deputy was chagrined at what had transpired. He volunteered to take the pilot to a hotel and then picked him up the next morning to return him to the airport.<br /><br />“Did the pilot ever figure out why he was intercepted?” I asked. The fueler just shook his head. Apparently the RV pilot had filed a flight plan but not activated it. Further, he had circled over a neighborhood he once lived in. All of it perfectly legal and nothing unusual.<br /><br />So, now there are more reports of innocent civilians engaged in legal activities being detained and searched. It’s true that there haven’t been any more terrorists flying airplanes into buildings. It’s equally true that success has come with huge costs, to both the treasury and liberty.<br />
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Don Maxwell - May 25,2013
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Scary stories, indeed, Dan. I wonder what we can do to avoid such interrogations and what to do about our documents. These are essentially police, not FAA representatives, so it seems likely that declining to let them take documents out of our possession might not please them much, regardless of what our legal rights might be. <br /><br />I had just yesterday decided to file flight plans with my iPhone flight planner--it needs only to press one button--and then not activate them (unless there's a clear benefit). But now I wonder if that's worse than not filing at all.
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Frank A. Carr - May 25,2013
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To your list of incidents Dan, Ken Leonard had one on the beach. The ADIZ and No-Fly zones around WDC has resulted in the closure of some and major impacts to other airports--including the first airport in the County--and untold impacts to the economy and former freedoms that pilots used to enjoy flying around MD & VA. For the frequent incursions, thankfully DHS hasn't shot anyone down--yet. Not to mention all the pocket knives we've lost to TSA while they have failed to ID one terrorist. But the good news, I can keep my shoes on after August!<!-- >'"><br><font color=red size=6>' or > missing in user HTML. Please fix the HTML.</font> -->
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - May 25,2013
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What I am reading in these series of reports is DHS Custom & Borders <br />Agency in support of DEA drug interdiction activities. The common <br />profile is VFR flights that appear to be drug or other smuggling <br />operations. It is interesting to note that none of impacted pilots say that <br />the pilots asked to see and make note of the Law Enforcement Officers' <br />badges and supervisor names. For one can't fight these at <br />the point of interception but at the Congressional and press level. <br />Those engagements need facts and names to make the DHS and DEA <br />decision makers accountable for in appropriate behavior. <br /><br />I should note that Customs & Border has the authority to stop and <br />search any vehicle w/in 200 mile of the border. This is well known in <br />AZ, NM, and Texas. To them an airplanes no different than a <br />automobile
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Dan Nickens - May 25,2013
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As the Customs & Border Protection web site acknowledges, Rob, authority for their searches is derived from 19 U.S.C. 1467 and 19 C.F.R. 162.6. These statutes specifically relate to arriving in the U.S. from outside the country, not to citizens traveling inside the border.<br /><br />Another federal law, 8 USC 1357, provides for CBP to detain and interrogate an alien or suspected alien within a “reasonable” distance of the border. Title 8  (B) 287.1 (2) establishes 100 miles as that distance.<br /><br />The statutory authority for CBP searches is always trumped by the Constitution and the fourth amendment guarantees. (“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”)<br /><br />The Supreme Court has ruled that searches at certain “routine” fixed checkpoints near border areas are constitutionally permissible. Stopping one airplane with a natural looking pilot that has never crossed the border doesn’t meet the exception’s requirements in my opinion....CBP may believe otherwise.<br />
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Jerry Ratcliffe - May 25,2013
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All of this is ten times more worrying for those of us who are (legal) guests in this country. <br />Yes, I do have a green card... and I work for the government.
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Kenneth Leonard - Jun 04,2013
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Dan - unfortunately, your reference to the 4th amendment reminds me that today, the supreme court gutted it. The supreme court decided that the cops can take a DNA sample from anyone they detain for suspicion of crime without a warrant, use it to see if you committed an unknown crime long ago and even if you are released without conviction, they keep the DNA sample forever. Justice Scalia was so offended, he made a very rare verbal dissent - and it was a scorcher!
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - Jun 15,2013
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Look like I was right about the DHS-DEA connection. A drug <br />enforcement 'leaker' confirmed that this was part of a Federal <br />program. The link points to a recent Flying magazine artcle, 'Feds Say: <br />'Pilots Have No Rights' ' that starts off<br /><br />'Flying has obtained information from a law enforcement source about <br />the federal program that detains pilots upon their arrival at their <br />destination airports and searches their airplanes. Training for the <br />program was conducted via an “aviation drug interdiction” class <br />sponsored by HIDTA (High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area), a <br />government organization that is a conglomerate of federal, state and <br />local law enforcement agencies to fight, as the name implies, drug <br />traffic'<br />Read more at <a href="http://www.flyingmag.com/news/feds-say-pilots-have-no-">http://www.flyingmag.com/news/feds-say-pilots-have-no-</a><br />rights#1VyhOogKqph26h8K.99
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Feds Say: 'Pilots Have No Rights'
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Scott Swett - Jun 15,2013
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Was hoping to have my plane completed before this window of freedom is crushed, but it's all accelerating so fast. More and more pilots landing with loaded guns in their faces.
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Dan Nickens - May 25,2013
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In addition to treasure and liberty, it is especially appropriate on a Memorial Day holiday to note that some have given their 'last full measure of devotion' to the preservation of our freedoms. As William Havard once said, 'The greatest glory of a free-born people is to transmit that freedom to their children.'
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Steve Kessinger - May 25,2013
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Interesting discussion. TSSA has taken to wandering around Bellingham Airport, 'just talking' to pilots and looking in hangars. Saw them coming once and closed my doors, didn't answer the knock a few minutes later (couldn't hear it over the loud music. ;-) ) <br /><br />But it did make me wonder: I own a hangar at the airport, and lease the ground it sits on from the Port of Bellingham. Can TSSA/PoB demand to inspect my hangar at any time without a warrant? Or if they're 'just looking at the airplane and talking to me', can they walk in and start snooping?
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - May 25,2013
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You need to consult you lease, but I suspect it is like anyother hangar <br />lease, where the FBO reserves the right to inspect your hangar. The <br />legal question is whether law enforcement need a warrant like <br />they do to search an apt or a car. That is a good question for AOPA <br />legal folks. It is obvious that they are getting more concern that <br />smuggling by air is increasing.
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Steve Kessinger - May 26,2013
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Yup, and Bellingham is a Port of Entry and has a Customs Inspection crew, so with all the smuggling going on in the Pacific Northwest I should probably take the joke 'Baggage Deck-install smuggling compartment' off the whiteboard to-do list.<br /><br />What is an obvious joke to a reasonable person becomes an opening to an unreasonable one.....
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Don Maxwell - May 26,2013
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Steve, would it be good for you to be proactive? What if you told the customs and security people that you'll be flying a small seaplane in the area? Maybe take them for rides? (That's a question, not a recommendation. I don't know what would happen.)
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Steve Kessinger - May 26,2013
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Seaplanes of all kinds are a very common sight up here, Don, and I've gone back and forth about the idea of inviting C&I/TSA over. Question is, will they think I'm being open and honest by inviting them over, or think I'm being unusual and just draw attention to myself? At work we've had a couple pilots get in trouble with TSA because their nail files were taken away as they were heading in to sit in a cockpit with a crash axe behind their seat, so my policy toward TSA is 'Don't ask, Don't tell'.<br /><br />The Airport Ops people often stop in and say Hello, know me pretty well, so before I button up the turtledeck I'll probably stop by C&I and invite them to have a look. Wouldn't hurt.<br /><br /><br />Guess that means I'll have to shave on my day off.
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Don Maxwell - May 26,2013
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My only 'interesting' encounter with the TSA so far was a few years ago, when Carol and I landed for the customs appointment at what was then 89N, Maxson Field, near the Thousand Islands. It was my second entry to the USA at that field, so I thought I knew what to expect--a nice middle-aged lady who would say 'Welcome back to America' and examine my documents carefully, while chatting amiably about the weather. Then for five bucks the FBO guy would drive us to a motel in town and pick us up the next morning.<br /><br />We arrived exactly on time, but no one was there. We sat in the airplane, bladders about to burst, for almost half an hour. Finally a big black SUV drew up at the terminal building and four big burly guys in black uniforms, black boots, and dark glasses got out. They had big black semi-automatics in big black holsters. They marched slowly toward the little white SeaRey and posted themselves on all four sides. They did not smile. They did not say, 'Welcome back to America.' <br /><br />After a time, one of them came closer and demanded, quietly but firmly, to see the documents. I handed them over. Then they told us to get out and peered into all the parts of the airplane that were peerable without a screwdriver or a wrench. They did not chat. They handed back the documents and marched back to the big black SUV. They got in and drove away.<br /><br />They didn't bother to tell us that the airport had been sold the previous week and was unattended or that the only telephone in miles was inside the locked terminal. They didn't offer us a ride to town. They didn't volunteer a phone number for a taxi.<br /><br />Well, that's just the start of the whole story. The rest is on STS, I think, probably filed under 'propeller.'
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Mark Alan MacKinnon - May 27,2013
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Don't forget what happened to John and Martha King.
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Don Maxwell - May 27,2013
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This might be as good a place as any to remind us about the seaplane exemption from a couple of USCG requirements. The SPA has it neatly here: <a href="http://www.seaplanes.org/mambo/UserFiles/File/CG_Requirments_Web_Page.pdf">http://www.seaplanes.org/mambo/UserFiles/File/CG_Requirments<br>_Web_Page.pdf</a><br /><br />They probably won't mind if it's also posted here, as well.<br /><br />The same info used to be included in PA's SeaRey Classic POH. I carry a copy in my airplane, but have never needed it.<br />
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CG_Requirments_Web_Page
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Kevin D'Angelo - May 27,2013
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I have found that with my many run ins with the Border patrol,l that carrying a copy of <br />documents to give to them relieves the threat of not returning them. On one sheet of <br />paper I have a copy of my passport,pilots license, medical and drivers license. They <br />have never asked for anything more, and I get stopped all the time. My biggest beef is <br />the waste of our taxes to pay for the patrols along the border with Canada. They will <br />never make it the Berlin wall and just make life miserable for the law abiding citizens <br />who live next to our friends in Canada, trying to make it so..
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Don Maxwell - May 27,2013
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Good idea, Kevin. I'm going to do that right now.
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Steve Kessinger - May 27,2013
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Another follow-up: <a href="http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/annals-of-the-security-state-more-airplane-stories/276018/">http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/annals-of-<br>the-security-state-more-airplane-stories/276018/</a><br /><br />
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Eric Batterman - Jun 19,2013
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Don Maxwell - Jun 19,2013
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Thanks, Eric. Good find.
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Steve Kessinger - Oct 01,2013
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - Sep 08,2013
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AOPA recently posted this video update on the DHS response to their <br />formal inquiry as to Custom's authority to stop and search aircraft. Well <br />worth the 6 minute to view the video. The takeaways<br />1- DHS is claiming their authority come from the FAA inspection <br />authority<br />2 - AOPA is requesting pilots to report to them whenever a pilot is <br />stopped, whether or not they are search. They need the data to <br />influence Congress and to know whether their push back is working<br />3- more disturbing is the comments of the senior AOPA officials (both <br />of which are former senior Federal appointees) who essentially say that <br />this is part of a general trend of the Federal Govt wanting to shutdown <br />VFR flying. I am shocked at the tone of these officials, who by nature <br />are not alarmist and normally support Fedreal policy. They are <br />sounding very much like CATO Libertarians.
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AOPA news - DHS response on searches
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Kenneth Leonard - Sep 29,2013
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Robert, I've looked on your link twice and do not find it...has the video been removed?
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - Oct 04,2013
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I updated the link to the 9 Sept archived location. Give it a try.
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Robert Charlwood Richardson - Apr 15,2014
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Recent post on AOPA regarding the Homeland Security tracking center <br />in Riverside CA. You has to wonder how our SeaRey flight profiles <br />must come up. BP tracking system casts a wide net - U.S. Customs <br />and Border Protection uses a tracking system based in Riverside, <br />Calif., to monitor flights across the country, and identify abnormalities <br />that might indicate criminal activity. However, casting such a wide net is <br />catching more law-abiding pilots than it is drug smugglers. 'The <br />number of arrests are laughable for all the work they do. This looks like <br />an agency in search of a mission,' said AOPA President Mark Baker. <br />Los Angeles Times (tiered subscription model) <br />(4/14)
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Frank A. Carr - Apr 15,2014
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On X-Country IFR Flight Plan flights if I change my destination (e.g.., winds <br />requiring an intermediate fuel stop) ATC will often, over the last few years, ask for <br />a reason for the change. I wonder if that's connected to the CBP Tracking System <br />described above?
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Kevin D'Angelo - Apr 16,2014
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I noticed that also and wondered why they ask that
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Bruce McGregor - Apr 16,2014
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A former Center controller told me that after 9/11 diversions require inquiry and reporting. He thought that the reports went to NORAD. The controllers really don't care about your reason, but they have to put something into the system. I just give my reason, i.e. low fuel or better weather, as part of the diversion request.<!-- >'"><br><font color=red size=6>' or > missing in user HTML. Please fix the HTML.</font> -->
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Jon Ladd - Apr 16,2014
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They asked me for a reason when I cancelled VFR flight following to <br />divert. I told them my son needed to <br />pee. I wonder how that was put into the system. Big brother has a need <br />to know.
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