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 Previous Item - AME in Central Florida?
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America's Seaplane City |
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Greg Burtner - Jul 19,2011
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Don Maxwell - Jul 20,2011
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I imagine PA will sell SeaRey kits like crazy.
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Jim Moline - Jul 20,2011
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600 ORDERS ????? and at only $139,000. Yeh, right !!<br />Yes Don, I agree, this would make PA
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Kenneth Leonard - Jul 20,2011
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600 orders eh? Show me the money. I hope Florida doesn't saddle it's taxpayers with a bill for a company that defaults in a year. I hope they do well, I hope they hire lots of folks and if so, give them a tax break, but don't spend money to draw them here.<br /><br />PA needs to welcome Icon and offer every customer a free ride while they wait for their A5. Heck, maybe even sell them a Searey while they wait...this isn't exactly a cheap crowd at $140k each.
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Charles Cantrill - Jul 21,2011
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I think it is only going to sell more Searey Kits for PA. But just think if they do come to America's Seaplane city and build the factory with the runway, when they go under and can not fulfill their orders PA will have a nice new factory to move into to. Just my opinion. It looks nice but I think the Searey is an over all better plane that can have a retractable wing and gear all at once and still carry two average pilots. We will have to see what the feed back is after Oshkosh as how it preforms on the water along side the Searey. But my vote is on the Searey.
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Dennis Vogan - Jul 21,2011
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There's a lot of money and talent thrown at this venture so don't consider them to be a fly-by-night org. They've also just received a substantial cash injection from the private sector to continue development and scale up a production facility. But competition is not a bad thing. It means that the others, including PA, can't sit still too long without furthering their own products and processes.<br /><br />A big issue to keep in mind is the market segment composed of people willing or able to build is far smaller than the segment composing pilots who just want to fly. That's what Icon's after. I doubt PA's current market segment of builders won't be affected too much if at all. I'm one who'd still buy a kit before buying a 'just-add-water' amphib. Face it, most of us just get a high when we're bouncing around up there and thinking, 'Wow! It really works!'<br /><br />Icon has a price out there of $139k, but I imagine that's just the starting point. I'm sure a fully-appointed panel with whatever other options will have an impact on the final $$$ in following with the magnitude of prices of other LSA aircraft. But you have to admit, they have a nice, clean and sleek looking package! <br />
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John w Shirah - Jul 21,2011
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Maybe it will finally prompt the '4-seater' to finally begin the steps of production. I am still very anxious to see how that is going to turn out and how much price difference there will be between a PA 4-seater and the beginner Icon.
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Dave Lima - Jul 21,2011
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And since the factory is so close it will open up jobs, so now they can give Paige a job and get Frank G to handle customer complaints!<br />Think about it....this will take years and years to get into full production, but I think eventually it will happen.
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Kevin D'Angelo - Jul 23,2011
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Weight is still their biggest problem with the icon. They probably won't see production <br />unless they can convince the FAA to increase the gross limits. Who knows maybe they <br />will, as money talks and they seem to have lots of that
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Thomas Brooks - Jul 24,2011
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Interesting reading.. 139K for an Icon. O.K. If P/A comes out with a certified LSA factory built Searey, what's the price? I'll have well over 70K in my kit when I'm finished and that doesn't have 'factory built' labor. I see two BIG factors in P/A's favor. Number one is pride in building and the knowledge learned about building and maintaining the craft and two, the hull not being part of the airframe. If I damage the hull, I don't have to have an airframe specialist repair it. It's my understanding that the hull of the Icon is an intrical part of the airframe. It might actually help P/A having Icon in Tavares. All their advertising would bring people to town that haven't seen P/A before. If P/A advertised locally they might pull the Icon customers in to look at an alternative.
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Daniel Paul Myers - Jul 24,2011
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Would PA still sell kits once they certify the SeaRey? You're looking at $130k+ for a <br />certified SeaRey I'm sure. Icons marketing strategy is much better than PA's too. It is a <br />much more attractive and popular amphibian and would appeal to the Ferrari drivers <br />more than the SeaRey-and its not even into production yet. It seems like every call I get <br />a call from a guy looking for an amphib always say 'man, have you seen that new <br />icon?' I don't think Icon moving in next door would help PA. Especially once/if Icon goes <br />into production. These guys mean business.
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David Mazer - Jul 24,2011
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So, Daniel, is your reply - sure have but don't know anyone that has ever flown one. Would you like to speak to 50 who have flow the SeaRey this week?
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Kenneth Leonard - Jul 24,2011
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According to Adam Yang, PA plans to continue to produce the kit LSX. Of course, plans do change, but certainly a large part of the Searey sales are folks who want to do it themselves.<br />Plus, if PA stopped selling kits, the old kits would shoot up in value and would continue to be rebuilt rather than scrapped over time. Again, hurting PA sales.<br />There is the Ferrari crowd who will turn up their noses to a rag wing, but PA was never going to sell to them anyway. If you think the Searey has a bad rep for low altitude stall/spin, wait until the Icon goes into production. They are marketing to a non-aviation crowd who is unlikely to study the most common aviation accidents or to show much self-discipline when flying.
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Daniel Paul Myers - Jul 24,2011
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Fifty???
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David Mazer - Jul 24,2011
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100. More?
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Daniel Paul Myers - Jul 24,2011
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well put Ken...and Dave...Current SeaRey flyers probably wouldnt be in the market for an <br />icon...we know the SeaRey is a better plane!
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Chris Vernon-Jarvis - Jul 24,2011
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Just up front I can't see how they can sell the Icon at a profit at this price unless they sell about 5,000 to 10,000 of them, maybe 1500 or 2,000 a year.<br /><br />They haven't been developing this out of a garage so the development costs are right up there. They don't have just two or three enthusiasts putting it together so their labour for development is right up there. They are not using 'easy to hand' cheap materials but fancy moulds and carbon fibre structure so their costs are right up there, and finally, even with all the tax breaks and local tax holidays they are doing start up as a 'Modern high tech' style factory so their costs are right up there. I can't quantify it but you'd have to be something more than just efficient to manufacture a sophisiticated product at this price just to make money on current production.<br /><br />Perhaps a whole new innovation in manufacturing? Well remember when the first small ABS molded boats came out? Or perhaps Plastic car bodies? They were going to revolutionise production and reduce prices so much we'd be trading the products for baseball cards. Didn't happen. Turned out there were costs, and then there were limits on size and shape. Hope they are not relying just on manufacturing innovation.<br /><br />I suspect after the first thirty or so the price will rise dramatically. Waiting list people will be offered a special ten thou. off price but still have to stump up. Maybe the product will be so good they'll stump up.<br /><br />ON THE OTHER HAND,<br /><br />Those of us dismissing the Icon as just another Sport Special might want to have a look around at what the equivalents in the landplane category are doing to the traditional style manufacturers. Look at any of the well built plastic fantastics, see how they feel and how comfortable they are. Tried a Cirrus, or a diamond for comfort? Interior finish like a semi luxury car. Sleek exterior and a performance improvement (however marginal) over the traditional gear (eg, metal Cessna.) I suspect the enthusiastic owners of those were saying much the same. 'Rather have my metal bird, they're just plastic.' I am sure Cessna would love to have sold planes to all those owners of plastic.<br /><br />I would have said 'They've raised the money to get into production so their figures must be good,' but we have seen too many fail at this hurdle. Their figures weren't any better than any one else's, just managed to convince aviation bankers and backers whose enthusiasm and greed were bigger than their diligence.<br /><br />If there is one market I wouldn't want to be doing this in with a USA based company it must be Sport Aviation. The basic premise that Ultralights and Sport Planes are easier to fly than certified is 'certifiably' misguided and the whole idea of a load of well heeled 25 hour pilots getting hold of these things is worse than scary.<br /><br />Sure is something to think about.
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Chris Vernon-Jarvis - Jul 24,2011
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The Witchita of Water?
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Dave Lima - Jul 25,2011
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This week only, you can get one with a $2000 deposit, what does that tell you???
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Don Maxwell - Jul 25,2011
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That it's Oshkosh week?
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Jamie Dantalis - Jul 25,2011
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I got an email from Icon a few hours ago about the Oshkosh $2000 special.<br />I think if they actually make production as stated they will do well until the first couple of world known celeberities or CEO's wipe themselves off. Then it will be bad for us all.<br /><br /><a href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=adbe1e47ca97b72ed50cc2fa21cbf3e5bdf3004da7aa40641a494528d5bca8ef">http://cl.exct.net/?qs=adbe1e47ca97b72ed50cc2fa21cbf3e5bdf30<br>04da7aa40641a494528d5bca8ef</a><br /><br />I think the Icon will be a fantastic sweet ride and look forward to a fly one day.Then we can be judgmental on its design.
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Chris Vernon-Jarvis - Jul 25,2011
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Jamie<br /><br />I don't think the accidents will affect sales too much, people, especially the CEO type always think they are better, maybe misplaced confidence but that is who they are. What will hurt a USA based company is the lawsuits that follow.<br /><br />I understand the apparent treasure at the end of the Sport Plane rainbow but I can't see the difference between the liability debacle that squished the experienced and professional companies the last time round and the Sport plane companies this time round, except that the Sport plane companies aren't as experienced. The guys who gain out of this are foreign companies with nothing more than agents in the USA. Nothing worth suing and if someone takes out their agent they just get another.<br /><br />The saving grace of the kit plane business is that the manufacturer is the guy who put the plane together and you can't sue yourself!
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