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 Previous Item - A Tar Bay SeaRey Day
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Where can we land. |
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David Mazer - Jul 31,2011
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I had the opportunity and pleasure to go to OSH with two attorneys that have an interest in and specialize in aviation law. I mentioned my concern about some of the discussions I've seen about violations for landing on bodies of water and being cited for being below 500 ft or landing on unrestricted bodies of water. Their unanimous agreement was very interesting to me.<br /><br />They clearly stated that a normal landing approach is always acceptable if you are landing on a body of water that isn't marked as restricted on an official FAA chart! That would mean that all the restrictions on landing at any lake in Orlando, for example, aren't legal because they haven't had them marked on the sectional and the supremacy clause overrides the local laws. Further, the right and need to land safely allows us to make a normal approach and the FAA's legal department almost always gives in when a challenge is raised. Even when they don't give in they reduce the duration substantially.<br /><br />This was all hypothetical and unofficial advice but I found it very interesting and I would further recommend that anyone with a violation with respect to these issues find a specialist in aviation law with a lot of experience.
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Eric Batterman - Jul 31,2011
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David, I don't see how this reasoning could possibly hold up. To my knowledge, the FAA charts are silent on waterway restrictions. Why else would SPA need to publish the waterway directory? Sounds like your attorney friends are not seaplane pilots (yet). Also, the FAA does not regulate waterways. Charts list some (ie not all) of the places you can land, not where you can't. Note many private airports are not on the charts. Additionally, the FARs are (I recall) silent on specific guidance when you may or may not operate by landing off of an airport.<br /><br />Is the scenario your friends are discussing: if you land on a 'restricted' lake - example a private lake without owners permission (or any lake in NJ @#$%$#@), you may be in violation of state or local regs, but not FAA? I think the FAA would hit you FAR Sec. 91.13<br /><br />(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.<br /><br />From FAR AIM chapter 7.5.8:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap7/aim0705.html">http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap7<br>/aim0705.html</a><br /><br /><br />c. Unless they are under Federal jurisdiction, navigable bodies of water are under the jurisdiction of the state, or in a few cases, privately owned. Unless they are specifically restricted, aircraft have as much right to operate on these bodies of water as other vessels. To avoid problems, check with Federal or local officials in advance of operating on unfamiliar waters. In addition to the agencies listed in TBL 7-5-1, the nearest Flight Standards District Office can usually offer some practical suggestions as well as regulatory information. If you land on a restricted body of water because of an inflight emergency, or in ignorance of the restrictions you have violated, report as quickly as practical to the nearest local official having jurisdiction and explain your situation. <br /><br /><br />I would be happy to discuss this with your friends at their hourly rate!<br /><br />
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David Mazer - Jul 31,2011
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There would be an hourly rate alright but I don't think we want to pay it! These guys don't bill out cheap. I'm going to follow up with them with these comments because I don't want to end up on the wrong end of an assumption. Thanks for the comments. Maybe we can get this as clear as anything dealing with the FAA can be.
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Eric Batterman - Jul 31,2011
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I meant if they pay me their hourly rate.
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David Mazer - Jul 31,2011
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I knew what you meant and I know what they really charge.
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John w Shirah - Jul 31,2011
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bruce pemberton encountered a somewhat similar problem on lake butler last year. he was on approach below 500 feet and residents called in about a plane crash. orange county squad cars and helicopter were dispatched. after a brief discussion, it was understood that some orange county cops were not educated on proper operation of amphibious aircraft for water landings. the uniformed officers tried to cite him for 'low flight' or what ever the technical term is but obviously had no grounds for citation. thank god for SPA magazine their listings for 'allowed water landings' operation directory.
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Walt Bates - Aug 02,2011
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FWIW.......I went to the FAA bldg during Oshkosh and discussed this issue with two FSDO guys. They clearly said that the 'except as necessary for takeoff and landing' clause means just that. ANY approach or departure is exempt from the 500' / 1000' rule. One fed cautioned on abuse of that exemption, though. He said if you were approaching a huge lake that had one boat on it and you deliberately crossed over him so as to 'force the occupants to jump into the water' (his phrase) you could be cited for 'careless and reckless operation'. I cited several cases of land airports where onlookers can walk to or park directly under the approach path right at the end of the runway and asked if they would cite a pilot for landing right over them. He admitted they would not. I then asked if we were subject to some rule that did not apply to land planes. He thought about that and said, 'Well, no........just.........you know.........be careful'.
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