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Eric Batterman - Aug 06,2017
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Not seaplanes - but flying. My youngest son is entering his senior year of high school and shopping colleges now. He wants to fly in the USAF (maybe Navy - but please keep it civil guys) and is pretty hot on AFROTC. I want him to explore all options and give him the most flexibility. He has ruled out the academy, and is not really interested in an airline career post service. Interested in pros/cons of:
ROTC
OTS after college
ANG
Thanks!
(post here or PM to my email)
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Steve Kessinger - Aug 06,2017
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JMHO, but from the guys I've talked to anyone that's not a ringknocker is looking at a career flying a drone. I'm sorry- UAV.
Apologies in advance, but I'm going to go on a rant here. The airline industry is hurting for pilots, BIGGLY! If your son started on his ratings now (2017), then went to a puppy mill for advanced stuff (CAMEL, CFI, etc) after he graduated (2018) he could easily be flying a RJ by the time he was 20 (2020), do his degree on-line (Riddle), and-if he's still at the Regional at 23 (2023)-upgrade to Captain. Spend a couple years there (2025) and get hired at a major airline at 25.
UAL is retiring 400+ pilots/year forever, so Delta, American, etc. My bet is that either they drop the 1500 knee-jerk minimum rule they adopted after Colgan 3407 went in (which killed the daughter of one of my mentors at CoEx), and they go back to hiring 500/50 pilots like in 1990/2000/2005, or they start allowing foreign nationals to fly for US airlines (Unlikely. I hope.)
Compare this (no offense to the military guys) to a military career, where he graduates college at 24, does his obligation of 6 years, then gets out at 30 with nothing but a career flying UAVs to show for it. If he went 121 by that time he'd easily be a 73/6/7/8/9 FO, maybe 73 Captain.
Yeah, flying 121 does suck sometimes, I've got all 3 divorced, merger, and furloughed boxes checked. And sometimes living out of a suitcase gets old, but it's my choice not to live in base and commute. But the industry is in a historic hiring boom, and (with a little luck) those who strike now can have an incredible life.
:endsub rant:
:resume program garden drip system:
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Eric Batterman - Aug 06,2017
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int main()
{
if( boywantsairlines ==1)
printf("%rant);
else
resume program garden drip system;
return 0;
}
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Don Maxwell - Aug 08,2017
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/*
* This is the end of superfluous
* subroutines and distractions
* and resumption of Life as we know it.
*/
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Chuck Cavanaugh - Aug 07,2017
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He's saying NO to the academy and NO to the airlines? Why does he hate me so?
Being that he wants to fly, he's making two mistakes, but, alas, he's a teenager. Go Guard (or reserves). He doesn't
want to incur a commitment without a guaranteed pilot training slot....and ROTC makes you do that. That's my answer
but I'm going to tag on to what Steve said.
What is with the "I don't want to fly for the airlines"? Why, too much money? Too much time off? Not enough stress?
Every kid in America should be getting their ratings with a goal of working for one of the 3 big US carriers someday.
When I try to list better jobs, I only come up with Rock Star or Big League pitcher.
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Dennis Scearce - Aug 07,2017
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'Retired' is a better job than all of these.
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Chuck Cavanaugh - Aug 07,2017
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Okay, right you are, Dennis 
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Paul Sanchez - Aug 07,2017
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Eric, I have to agree with Dennis on this one. Hopefully in 5 years, 4 months & 11 days (not that I'm counting) I'll know what he
means!
I've been at FedEx for 11 yrs and 'other' airlines before that. I've worked my way up, but I can say that what I know now if I had to
do it over again from scratch, without a doubt I would do the Air Nat'l Guard (ANG). FedEx's pilot force is made up of about 80%
previous military and all the guys I talk to seem to agree. At least at this given time. For example, a good friend's son just graduated
from high school and was recruited by many universities. He accepted a major one then walk into the ANG office and joined up. They
gave him a $20,000 bonus and will pay 100% of the 4 + years of college and only had to commit for 5 years service. This applies
whether he stays with flight training or any other area that he qualifies for with the ANG. Plus he'll be getting paid by the ANG (for his
drill weekends, etc) while he's in school. This will be a major help to you in keeping your wallet from being handed over to a
university!
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Dennis Scearce - Aug 07,2017
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I don't know what you guys have ever heard about retirement, but it WAY better than you ever heard!!
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Don Maxwell - Aug 07,2017
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You're the expert on retiring, Dennis. You've done it--how many times?
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Dennis Scearce - Aug 07,2017
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Kinda retired for the third time. Check out my 'new' car (Morty the Forty) purchased to give me something to do. 400 cubic inch small block Chevy powered. Sold the BMW M roadster - too fast for old people.
| | Attachments:
Morty and Sammie 7-2017
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Ken Leonard - Aug 08,2017
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I just retired last year after 35 (mostly reserve) yrs with USAF doing or managing aircraft maintenance. Agree with those above
that AFR or ANG is good experience. I don't think AFROTC is a good choice, personally, but your results may vary. A young lady
in our neighborhood who went to high school with my son spoke with me several times about AF academy. She is in her 2nd yr
there now and very happy. I have never seen the place.
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Carr, Frank - Aug 08,2017
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Rumor has it Ken, that the USAF Academy is commanded by a female 2-star who wears sneakers with her dress blues. Not that that
would affect the education or experience of a cadet, or the need to polish his shoes. I've been there on a tour, and not liking it and
Colorado Springs would be hard, or so it seems to me.
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Robert Richardson IV - Aug 08,2017
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i concur with my fellow "retired" USAF pilots. If your son wishes to make a career of military flying, then the AFR or ANG is the
way to go. As a late UPT entry (pinned on Capt when I started UPT). I have observed and explored numerous options to
get into the cockpit. Having personally had USAF active duty and Reserve flying assignments and observed civil (airline,
corporate, and GA), as well as Federal aviation (I.e. USCG and Border Patrol). All have their pluses and minuses.
Here are a couple words to the wise,
- Get into a formal well regarded aviation tng program (milt plot tng or Emery Riddle Univ.)
- the real challenge is getting a slot. USAFA has the highest probably of success but comes with the most strings and
commitments.
- Acft selection at USAF UPT is based on class ranking, regardless of commissioning path. My 1983 UPT had all types (Zoomies,
USNA, OTS, ROTC, and ANG) and the OTS and ROTC cadets got the only two fighters to come down.
- If ones goes Active Duty, then you are an officer first, so "needs of the Service" come first. If they need Reaper pilots, then that
is where you go. In 1993 during the post 1st Gulf War drawdown, the USAf told group of soon to graduate UPT pilots that there
were not enough cockpits. Their choice was a non-flying assignment as "Bank pilot", find a GuardReserve unit, or take your
chances of a USAF RIF. My C-5 Res unit picked up 5 UPT pilots to backfill our Gulf War retirements.
- Going for a Guard or Reserve pilot slot is not an easy path, but offers a guarantee of acft type. My neighbor's son landed an
Army MD Guard pilot slot, but after a 3yr enlistment as an acft scheduler and a Tour to Iraq.
- Finally, a wise B-52 Wing CDR advice to me when I finally landed a UTP tng slot was "If you do everything they tell to do, then you
will be a head of 80% of the pilots in the pattern." I found that to be very true in my 35 yrs of flying
BL - there is a serious and growing pilot shortage. I know some retiring O6 pilots who are landing airline and corporate gigs. Heck
there was a NYTimes article last week about a retired 65yr old 777 Nippon Airline pilot taking a regional jet job.
If your son stays healthy he will have a long and fulfilling career as a pilot.
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Steve Kessinger - Aug 09,2017
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Concur, Robert. A guy in my QB hangar just kicked the last bird out of the nest, house is paid for, 56 years old, etc. He quit flying to raise the family, but still had the Ernie Gann itch. I persuaded him to give SkyWest a call and they offered him a class date over the phone. He'll do training then sit reserve from home. Not a bad living.
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Terence Driscoll - Aug 08,2017
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Tell him to check into the NY Stratton Air National Guard.
They have active year round missions flying ski equipped
C130 Hercules to the North pole in summer and South Pole
during winter months. The C130 with skis is amazing. I was
a ground equipment mechanic there. Any Guard unit with non
wartime mission has more resources than other units.
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Daniel Hayden - Aug 10,2017
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You did not mention if he is against helicopters...The Army (active and reserves) was taking 18 year olds right out of high school into warrant officer helicopter training. They sign for the slot after passing the physical and ASVAB, go to basic, then straight to warrant school then flight training. Can check to see if they are still doing that as I have been out for a few years. Otherwise, military is short of pilots as well so I would think his chances are pretty good, no matter which route, as long as he is healthy and has some sense.
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Mark MacKinnon - Aug 11,2017
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Just a note from my personal experience.
I served in the ANG, Bangor Maine, as an avionics technician for over 6 and a half years on KC-135 tankers, received my honorable discharge in 1992 as Ssgt. I had no active duty other than training. This has put me and many other guard and reserve folks in a "gray" area concerning vet status. For instance, when we are discharged, we do not receive a DD 214. We get another discharge form, but try explaining that to an employer who wants to see your DD 214. That's all they know, and it's like banging your head against a wall, especially with online job applications. There are other problems, like (to a lesser degree) I cannot get a veteran license plate without a DD 214. Also health care could be problematic, though I haven't tried it myself just because of the distance I would have to drive and hassles. If your son joins the Guard or Reserves make DARN sure he is fully informed what to expect at retirement.
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Ken Leonard - Aug 12,2017
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Correct. But if a current reservist is activated for more than 90 days, (after initial training) they get a DD214 at the end of that
activation.
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Mark MacKinnon - Aug 12,2017
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We were notified of possible activation during the Gulf War Ken, but never were. So I was never activated for more than 90 days.
And I had just started a brand new full-time job as a radio tech for the Maine Forest Service, so I was glad that we weren't, but I was not aware of the complications of not possessing a DD214 that would come later. I did not come from a military family and didn't have the experience and knowledge that some others did. That's why I'm stressing that Eric's son needs to learn everything he can before making a decision.
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Don Maxwell - Aug 12,2017
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This is an aside--but I've been wondering lately about nomenclature: When I was in the army, we usually said, "men" when addressing a group of soldiers. "Good work, men." So what does a 2017 G.I. call a group of soldiers in a similar situation?
It probably be a one-syllable, asexual term, like "troops," but maybe friendlier.
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Ken Leonard - Aug 13,2017
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"Wing", "group", "squadron". When with a smaller number, it's generally a less formal conversation so I did not use any term.
"Good morning!" Worked just fine.
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Steve Kessinger - Aug 12,2017
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I always think of what Chesty Puller said when he was asked what to call a female Marine, since there were WAVES, WACs, etc... He said "We'll call them what they are: MARINES!"
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Carr, Frank - Aug 12,2017
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I recall being addressed as "You Ladies"
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Sauers, Jeff - Aug 25,2017
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Right on Frank.
My son is a Marine flying helos. And I believe they use the "f" word also, quite a bit nowadays, when addressing the "Ladies"!
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